[Roderick]

I'll start this off by quoting myself from a post on 'Collectors' Corner'

Quote

Martini cadet rifles re-chambered to .32/20 are fairly common and I'd say that many of the ones being used today were so done.
Mick Smith initially bought 25,000 of them from the Government in about 1957 and he was selling them re-chambered for 2 pounds 10 shillings each. A fair number of the purchase went to the Numrich Arms Co. in the US.
They had to be re-chambered, if sold in NSW, because the NSW Police ruled that they were military rifles if left original, even though the .310 was originally a civilian cartridge.

I might add that there were as far as I remember, as this is over 50 years ago, two other purchases from the Government of 20,000 and 10,000.

Mick was considered to have finally made a big financial blunder when the rest of the trade heard that he'd bought the initial lot.
Mick took a two page add, a centre spread, in the Sydney 'Truth' and announced the the sale of the rifles and the price and that they would be on sale the following Saturday morning. He recruited many of the Saturday morning regulars [Smith's Sports Store was like an unofficial gun club]and we lined the stairs to the workshop where all the converted .310s were stored. One of the counter staff took the money and another wrote a receipt, then the buyer joined the queue and when he got to the front swapped his receipt for a rifle that had been passed by the 'bucket brigade' down the stairs

It was organized chaos and was repeated the next Saturday but not so hectic nor for as long.
How many were sold in the initial rushes I have no idea but it must run into the thousands and most of them would be out there somewhere. Some may have been stamped '.32-20' but I think very few. One thing that is sure is that there are a lot of people who have .310 Cadet Rifles that really have .32-20s.

Now the reason for all the foregoing is that the .310 doesn't always perform well in the rechambered rifles.
There are some differences in the cartridges and anyone that has 'Cartridges of the World' can easily look them up.
Dimensions: .310 first followed by the .32-20.

Bullet diametre: .314/.3125
Neck diametre: .325/.327
Shoulder diam: .342/.342
Base diametre: .350/.354
Rim diametre: .405/.408
Rim thickness: .038/.065

Length of case: 1.075/1.315
O/all length: 1.492/1.592

All sizes are in inches.

There is .0015 smaller bullet diametre so when firing the .32 there is room for gas escape around the bullet and when firing the .310 there is escape as the projectile jumps the .240 gap to the rifling. Either way it's not going to do the rifle much good.

Then there's headspace, which is going to be .027 or .017more than the probable maximum if the breech block has zero clearance on a .32-20 round, more than likely it will have around .005 clearance which means .022 excess headspace.

No wonder I hear of and see some people having trouble with their rifles, particularly split cases.

[500 A-Square]

Hi Roderick,

I had my cadet rifle refurbished very shortly after purchasing, firing off a couple of pre loaded rounds when I first got it I had cases splitting and at the price of cases I was not impressed.

Yes my smith said it was a 32-20 and set about setting it up correctly for the 310 cadet. After he worked his magig all is well now and she shoots great. I use .312 dia, Hawksbury River cast bullets of 122gr round nose projectiles.

Very nice little plinker. 500

[trumpychris]

Thats some great info you have posted there.

Im looking at purchasing one very soon. Im looking at rechambering in 222 rimmed or even 357 magnum but im leaning more toward the 222.

I have a beautiful sportco-martini .22 that my father bought for me when I was about 13 years old for $80. It is super accurate and it is my favourite rifle of all.

There is something beautiful about the simplicity of the martini action. Seems like many others are thinking along the same lines as the prices have steadily increased over the years.

Cheers

Chris

[oneder]

great posts,when i see a cheap cadet i think"buy it,buy it!"but then i think,you dont have enough money for another project buddy!id like to chamber one with a mid to heavyish barrel in 17 or 20/222 rimmed,maybe even improved.

[sledgemeister]

310's are a great gun and great cartridge, they are awesome wallaby guns, little kick and plenty of wallop, less noisy than a 22 magnum, well they seem that way to me.
I brought three of them a couple years back for 400.00

[Bravo]

trumpychris, on 02 Mar 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

Thats some great info you have posted there.

Im looking at purchasing one very soon. Im looking at rechambering in 222 rimmed or even 357 magnum but im leaning more toward the 222.

I have a beautiful sportco-martini .22 that my father bought for me when I was about 13 years old for $80. It is super accurate and it is my favourite rifle of all.

There is something beautiful about the simplicity of the martini action. Seems like many others are thinking along the same lines as the prices have steadily increased over the years.

Cheers

Chris

Morning Chris, I did something like this with a small Marini several years ago, converting it to 22/357 MAXIMUM. I started with the Remington 357 'Maximum' case and necked it to 224 using a .223 Improved reamer. The body size of the maximum case is the same size as the 222,223 family so it is an easy conversion. makes a very acurate little fun gun for bunny busting and the like. Can't recommend more highly so have a go you won't be disappointed. I have attached a couple of photos here

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[woftam]

An excellent gun for introducing the novice to shooting centrefires. My littlest feral princess absolutely loves mine and I know it will go to a good home when I no longer need it. Fortunately I have a spare.

[07ANDY]

My little fella

[07ANDY]

After straining the eyes pon the stock I found the numbers 7/11 on the butt and the serial number, the round stamp is all but gone

[Mauser98]

I've got an all original NSW one, but i want to turn it into a sporter, but having second thoughts wrecking my one to do so. I wan't to go .218 Bee, since it only needs a barrel change and a little bit better than the .22 hornet. I just want it to shoot 62gn ADI FMJ's which i have much too many of.

[woftam]

Quote

I've got an all original NSW one, but i want to turn it into a sporter, but having second thoughts wrecking my one to do so.

And once you've done the conversion it is one less all original one. It can't be undone. Mine are both completely original and I intend to keep them that way.
Not having a go at you, simply my point of view and the aspect of shooting that interests me most.
When they were cheap and plentiful while new guns were less plentiful and more expensive relatively, then that is what people did but times have changed and there are less and less original ones now and they are relatively more expensive. A recent thread on another forum bemoans the fact an intact original 1953 Lithgow No1 MkIII* is being parted out. Only 40,000 made and the last of a long line stretching back to 1914. Sad really.
What about finding one that has already been messed with to tinker with ?

[Roderick]

Mauser98,

I too am reluctant to alter an original as there are not all that many originals around, a few years ago the .310 became unrestricted in Britain and a lot of original Australian ones went 'home'.

.22rf Sportco conversions are relatively plentiful and although the firing pin may have been reshaped it could still be used for centre fire, the extractor could be reshaped and as the lifting lugs on the lever were ground off to LOWER the firing pin so as to strike the .22 rim, they can be built up. The breech block is unaltered but if the body is flush with the top of the block then the body has had a bit taken off the top, not many had this done however.

The largest cartridge that I've seen one converted to is the .30/30 Winchester, the late Bill Marden did one back in the 1960s. Kicked a bit!!

[Lowey]

Here's one I picked up not too long ago, its a Westly Richards complete with cleaning rod, a bit dinged up !





And my BSA




Cheers
Lowey

[Roderick]

Wouldn't bother with the Westley Richards, mate, it is, as you say, a bit dinged up, mate.
Not really a collectors' item in that state, mate, and it's marked 'NSW Public School Cadet Force' which is not the most common of the possible markings and indicates that the rifle is getting old and was probably in service before 1901, mate. That makes it at least 110 years old.

Tell you what, mate, I'll swap you a beaut .22rf, a bolt action repeater, that was made only a few years ago in the Phillipines by one of their lesser known makers, a really rare one.

This is a genuine offer, mate, that is if you want to get rid of it and make room for a good one.

[Lowey]

Quote

Wouldn't bother with the Westley Richards, mate, it is, as you say, a bit dinged up, mate.
Not really a collectors' item in that state, mate, and it's marked 'NSW Public School Cadet Force' which is not the most common of the possible markings and indicates that the rifle is getting old and was probably in service before 1901, mate. That makes it at least 110 years old.

Tell you what, mate, I'll swap you a beaut .22rf, a bolt action repeater, that was made only a few years ago in the Phillipines by one of their lesser known makers, a really rare one.

This is a genuine offer, mate, that is if you want to get rid of it and make room for a good one.

Sounds like a great deal .......................... for you lol

Cheers
Lowey

[Roderick]

Well, if you don't want a good deal, Lowey, that's your misfortune but don't listen to the people who will try to kid you that you have a rare collectors piece. I've seen 6 or so of them and your's makes 7, not all that rare really.

So all that I'll say more is. . . .





Hang onto it, it's a beauty.

[Lowey]

Quote

Well, if you don't want a good deal, Lowey, that's your misfortune but don't listen to the people who will try to kid you that you have a rare collectors piece. I've seen 6 or so of them and your's makes 7, not all that rare really.

So all that I'll say more is. . . .





Hang onto it, it's a beauty

Thanks Mate , I really like it too , picked it up while purchasing another rifle didnt really need it and wasnt sure what to do with it shall leave it sit in the gun room for a while never know one day it maybe a collector (another 100 years or so ) ?

Cheers
Lowey

[Roderick]

Lowey, on 04 Mar 2011 - 07:15 PM, said:

Thanks Mate , I really like it too , picked it up while purchasing another rifle didnt really need it and wasnt sure what to do with it shall leave it sit in the gun room for a while never know one day it maybe a collector (another 100 years or so ) ?

Cheers
Lowey

All my waffle aside it is already a desireable collectors' piece and if you ever do decide to sell it make sure that it goes to a good home.

[Mauser98]

If i could get just an action, i'd go for it, possibly even consider a swap. Again, at first i thought of doing reversable mods, but now i'm just thinking of getting an action to molest.

In any case, these are some pictures of what i like in cadets, i've got none of these, havn't got pics of my one on the 'pooter.I like the one with the red background, except for the pistol grip, theres also iirc a greener shotgun, which looks good except for the lever, and the other two, i really like the overall style. You can probably see they all have similar appearance. Hope you like my cadet porn.

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[Gunna 12G]

Awesome pics guy's brings back fond memories as a lad trying to hit a 5 gallon drum (20 litre )out in the middle of the paddock and watching as the projectiles bounced across the dirt like a stone thrown into a river , finally stopping in the pine plantation after three or four skips.
cheers gunna.

[Lowey]

Mauser98, I too would love to work on a project with the Martini action as in your pics , maybe a 17 hornet

I only have the 2 as above and cant change either of them ! I will keep looking one day I will find a suitable action to bring back to life

Quote

All my waffle aside it is already a desireable collectors' piece and if you ever do decide to sell it make sure that it goes to a good home.

will leave that to my kids to fight out as long as they sell it for more than I told the wife I paid for it LOL


Cheers
Lowey

[gevarm lover]

500 A-Square, on 02 Mar 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Hi Roderick,

I had my cadet rifle refurbished very shortly after purchasing, firing off a couple of pre loaded rounds when I first got it I had cases splitting and at the price of cases I was not impressed.

Yes my smith said it was a 32-20 and set about setting it up correctly for the 310 cadet. After he worked his magig all is well now and she shoots great. I use .312 dia, Hawksbury River cast bullets of 122gr round nose projectiles.

Very nice little plinker. 500

[gevarm lover]

Hi there A-Square,
Enjoyed reading your experience with the .310. I have one but haven't done anything with it yet, mainly because I cannot find any loading data for it. I've spoken to Hawksbury Bullets who told me to slug the bore, which would tell them what bullet to sell me. I have a set of .310 dies now but am wondering if I have one of those rifles that were re-chambered to .32-20 but not stamped as such.
Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you could give me some heads up info as to a suitable load.
I also was recently given an old 1892 Winchester that originally was a .32-20 but has since had the barrel changed with a Martini Cadet barrel stamped .310 too. After reading your posting I was thinking it may well be re-chambered to a .32-20 also.
Gevarm Lover.

[gevarm lover]

500 A-Square, on 02 Mar 2011 - 09:12 PM, said:

Hi Roderick,

I had my cadet rifle refurbished very shortly after purchasing, firing off a couple of pre loaded rounds when I first got it I had cases splitting and at the price of cases I was not impressed.

Yes my smith said it was a 32-20 and set about setting it up correctly for the 310 cadet. After he worked his magig all is well now and she shoots great. I use .312 dia, Hawksbury River cast bullets of 122gr round nose projectiles.

Very nice little plinker. 500

[gevarm lover]

Lowey, on 04 Mar 2011 - 08:06 AM, said:

Here's one I picked up not too long ago, its a Westly Richards complete with cleaning rod, a bit dinged up !





And my BSA




Cheers
Lowey

[gevarm lover]

Hi Lowey,
For your information there is a new barrel for sale on usedguns.com.au under gun parts for the Westley Richards action.
If you are not aware of it the threads on the Westley R. are different than the standard BSAs Cadets so it won't sell too
fast I reckon. But imagine it; A brand new barrel. Good luck.
Gevarm Lover

[500 A-Square]

Hey Gevarm lover, Here is a link to the ADI site where you can download the 2011 PDF for reloading:

http://www.adi-powde...dloaders-guide/

It refers to AR 2205 for the .310 cadet. I use 4gr of AS-30N pistol powder with a Hawksbury River 122gr Round Nose projectile in my .310 and it works a treat.

You got the rite advice, slug your barrel to determin the boore diameter and go from there mate.Get onto
youtube and type in ( slugging a rifle barrel) and you will learn how to do it yourself mate. It is simple as !!!

As for how to tell if you have a 310 or a 32-20 I am not sure of how to tell. Read Rodericks first post for case size info and maybe send him a PM message as I recon he could tell you how to go about it. I have no doubt that someone watching this thread will post the how to determine what chamber you have.

To be honest with you I do not know how to tell as they are very close to one another mate. Sorry I cant help with that one.

[gevarm lover]

500 A-Square, on 07 Mar 2011 - 07:47 PM, said:

Hey Gevarm lover, Here is a link to the ADI site where you can download the 2011 PDF for reloading:

http://www.adi-powde...dloaders-guide/

It refers to AR 2205 for the .310 cadet. I use 4gr of AS-30N pistol powder with a Hawksbury River 122gr Round Nose projectile in my .310 and it works a treat.

You got the rite advice, slug your barrel to determin the boore diameter and go from there mate.Get onto
youtube and type in ( slugging a rifle barrel) and you will learn how to do it yourself mate. It is simple as !!!

As for how to tell if you have a 310 or a 32-20 I am not sure of how to tell. Read Rodericks first post for case size info and maybe send him a PM message as I recon he could tell you how to go about it. I have no doubt that someone watching this thread will post the how to determine what chamber you have.

To be honest with you I do not know how to tell as they are very close to one another mate. Sorry I cant help with that one.

[gevarm lover]

Thanks A-Square for the info. I will follow it up. I know how to slug a barrel as I've done some fire lapping.
With the Winchester 1892 I intend shooting one of each round in it this afternoon. One .310 cartridge then one .32-20.
From what I find by examining the fired cases should give me an idea if the chamber is .310 or .32-20.
Gevarm Lover

[Loftyridge]

I have two .310's and neither of them will chamber a .32-20 because of the thicker rim. So that may be a clue. Not saying that some rifles in .310 won't chamber a .32-20.

[Roderick]

Loftyridge, on 08 Mar 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I have two .310's and neither of them will chamber a .32-20 because of the thicker rim. So that may be a clue. Not saying that some rifles in .310 won't chamber a .32-20.

Then you've got genuine .310s as the rim is the most noticeable difference; being .038" for the .310 and .065" for the .32-20.
If a .32-20 wont go in then it's chambered for the .310.

[Lowey]

Quote

Hi Lowey,
For your information there is a new barrel for sale on usedguns.com.au under gun parts for the Westley Richards action.

I did see that but my barrel is good enough for when or if I ever fire a couple of shots through it !

Cheers
Lowey

[Spaceball]

Hi guys,
I am looking for a cheap Martini Cadet as a base for a new project. Are there many around with shot out barrels?
Or are they something that just gets pushed to the back of the safe?

Thanks

[rodential]

it may pain you gents to know the destination of some of these cadet rifles - my uncle has one that he got converted to a 22lr; best parrot popper ive ever shot with, so light and comfortable. however he told me the story of ripping up a mates driveway in perth in the late 80's early 90's, and lo and behold the reinforcing of the concrete driveway was a multitude of these beautiful rifles lashed together with tie wire.

[Chewtah]

Roderick, on 02 Mar 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

I'll start this off by quoting myself from a post on 'Collectors' Corner'


I might add that there were as far as I remember, as this is over 50 years ago, two other purchases from the Government of 20,000 and 10,000.

Mick was considered to have finally made a big financial blunder when the rest of the trade heard that he'd bought the initial lot.
Mick took a two page add, a centre spread, in the Sydney 'Truth' and announced the the sale of the rifles and the price and that they would be on sale the following Saturday morning. He recruited many of the Saturday morning regulars [Smith's Sports Store was like an unofficial gun club]and we lined the stairs to the workshop where all the converted .310s were stored. One of the counter staff took the money and another wrote a receipt, then the buyer joined the queue and when he got to the front swapped his receipt for a rifle that had been passed by the 'bucket brigade' down the stairs

It was organized chaos and was repeated the next Saturday but not so hectic nor for as long.
How many were sold in the initial rushes I have no idea but it must run into the thousands and most of them would be out there somewhere. Some may have been stamped '.32-20' but I think very few. One thing that is sure is that there are a lot of people who have .310 Cadet Rifles that really have .32-20s.

Now the reason for all the foregoing is that the .310 doesn't always perform well in the rechambered rifles.
There are some differences in the cartridges and anyone that has 'Cartridges of the World' can easily look them up.
Dimensions: .310 first followed by the .32-20.

Bullet diametre: .314/.3125
Neck diametre: .325/.327
Shoulder diam: .342/.342
Base diametre: .350/.354
Rim diametre: .405/.408
Rim thickness: .038/.065

Length of case: 1.075/1.315
O/all length: 1.492/1.592

All sizes are in inches.

There is .0015 smaller bullet diametre so when firing the .32 there is room for gas escape around the bullet and when firing the .310 there is escape as the projectile jumps the .240 gap to the rifling. Either way it's not going to do the rifle much good.

Then there's headspace, which is going to be .027 or .017more than the probable maximum if the breech block has zero clearance on a .32-20 round, more than likely it will have around .005 clearance which means .022 excess headspace.

No wonder I hear of and see some people having trouble with their rifles, particularly split cases.

This is what I think about when using Zeds in my .22 lr , the zed project is too short to be ideal .